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Topic: First post since before Christmas
Replies: 26   Last Post: Jan 11, 2021, 3:15 PM by: Clemgalalways
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First post since before Christmas

emoji_events [29]
Posted: Jan 8, 2021, 1:44 PM
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Man there sure is a lot to unpack.

First thing I would like to get out of the way is that I have really enjoyed watching Clemson's basketball team play so far this season. I am starting to get optimistic that this team can sustain their level of play which always scares me with the basketball team.

Second I would like to congratulate Trevor Lawrence and Jackson Carman on their Clemson careers and wish them the best of luck as they move forward.

Now is when this post gets TLDR. (You have been warned)

My take on the loss to OSU:

Offensively - The first thing I noticed on offense was that even when we were having success, there didn't seem to be a lot of rhythm in the play calling. Not even specific plays, but even the types of plays that were working were changed to "see what happens" type plays. I am guessing the combination of Streeter AND Dabo having input made it difficult for either of them to start to get things set up and get in a rhythm with what was working. It didn't improve as the game went on and once we became one-dimensional because of the score of the game, we were in big trouble! The offensive line played a little worse than expected after the ND game but about the same as what we saw for most of the season. The skill guys played the way they have all year, but the competition took a step up.

Defensively - The game was lost in the 2nd quarter when we were playing without Skalski, Turner and Davis for much of the quarter. Our defense looked subpar most of the season with those guys out, so it isn't a surprise that the trend continued. That combined with the fact that we got put on our heels mentally by not being ready for multiple plays really made us look terrible and probably worse than we actually played in terms of each individual's performance.

OSU's motivation - I was in the group prior to the game who thought the "revenge factor" would not be a huge deal. There were two places where I think it played out in the outcome of the game.

1) OSU kept the switch on for the entire game with the outcome of the 2019 in their minds. There were several times where it looked like we would have a chance to make a move on the scoreboard and get back in it and they responded with energy and effort every time. That's a difficult thing to do for a team as a whole and I think it kept the game out of reach in the 2nd half.

2) All 11 guys on their defense wanted to take part in every play. We had multiple plays where it seemed we were starting to break something and OSU always had more guys there to finish the play after we broke a tackle or got somebody out of position. I think their defensive motivation had them flying around in much the same way we saw Clemson fly around in the rematch with ND. Every player on the field for them wanted to be involved in making sure they changed the outcome from the previous game.

Now to touch on some of the major bored talking points recently:

Venables being "figured out" – The only thing people have figured out about Venables’ defense is that when he doesn’t have elite veterans on the field, then he doesn’t shut down elite teams. I’m pretty sure you can say that for every DC in the country based on previous scores in playoff games. Offense is easier than defense at this time in football. We should be older on defense as a whole next season.

Offensive line play – Not many people agree with my take on this, but I think we only had 1 BAD offensive lineman this season. The problem we had was where that guy was located. None of the people close to him had enough experience or talent to do their job AND help the weak link at the same time. We got out of position a lot and failed to reach the second level A LOT because we had to try to chip and help out before moving to the next level. I think we could see vast improvement next season with some minor tweaks and as with any team in any sport, you have to build strength from the middle then to the outside. Getting a strong anchor in the middle of our line is priority #1!

RB room – The RB position at Clemson is WIDE open. Dixon spent some time in the dog house after the ND game but showed flashes of shaping up late in the season. He is our most proven back but has not yet proven anything if that makes sense. We have talent on campus. None of them are ETN or Spiller. The question moving forward is: are they Davis/Ellington talented or are they Hot Rod/Jamie Harper talented? If one or two perform at the level of Davis/Ellington depending on their style of play we could be pleasantly surprised about RB production in ’21.

Returning LBs vs future talent – We know what we have with Skalski & Spector. Spector was the leading tackler this season and we all saw the difference in our defense with Skalski on the field vs when he wasn’t on the field. I don’t think playing time is in question for either of these guys. Where I see the youth competing is for the 2nd team reps. Spector had to play way too many snaps this season. Skalski did the same when he was healthy. We need more reliable and overall more talented depth to start to build from that young talent. Simpson showed what having a strong backup means when he was able to rotate with Jones late in the season which made both of them better. We need to find 3 players for next season that play like starters when they sub in for the starters. This year we saw a major step back in performance when a starter left the field.

Hating on Turner - First of all anybody saying Turner got beat over and over again the the semifinal listens to Herbstreit too much. Herbstreit was at best guessing the covering that Clemson was in. If the CB stops running and leaves the guy free then you are sure the safety had deep. DK ran with him the whole way. For those calling Turner too slow to cover and using the semifinal as proof, you will notice that he didn't actually cover anybody and get beat. The times the ball went over his head he was covering/looking underneath and was not in position to cover deep. You can't say he is a smart player but not fast enough and then point to the OSU game because that example is the opposite of your point if he had deep coverage. My take is that Turner was trying to cover for the LBs because he knew they were struggling with Skalski out.

I have many more thoughts but they seem to be escaping my mind at the moment. I look forward to any responses to this post for those of you who made it through to the end because I love discussing differing opinions.

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good points and much too rational for many on TNET

emoji_events [7]
Posted: Jan 8, 2021, 1:53 PM
    Reply

somehow folks have the impression that BV (and all coaches) have a team that they can refine every year. The truth is that they deal with a very dynamic set of young people. Some of these people turn out to be 2 stars that play like 5 stars and 4 stars that play (or behave) like 1 stars.

Bottom line, for those that can write more than a paragraph of complaints (not the OP here), have just become spoiled.

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Re: good points and much too rational for many on TNET

[2]
Posted: Jan 8, 2021, 1:57 PM
    Reply

Thank you for the response!

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Re: First post since before Christmas

[4]
Posted: Jan 8, 2021, 1:57 PM
    Reply

I don't post, but I do respond;
Have enjoyed watching the basketball team on television.
Haven't seen all the games, but the ones I have caught have been very entertaining.
Here is my take on the loss to OSU(Danger Will Robinson)
We lost. And it wasn't even close.
Hope my response helped?

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Re: First post since before Christmas

[1]
Posted: Jan 8, 2021, 1:59 PM
    Reply

Thank you for a response that covers the top half of my post and for using an "ADD apropriate" length.

Many posters on here can't make it through TLDR versions.

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Re: First post since before Christmas

[3]
Posted: Jan 8, 2021, 2:25 PM
    Reply

Good post. Some of the "coaches" on here will annihilate you because your opinions are not the same as theirs. I agree with the post.

2021 orange level member link


Re: First post since before Christmas

[2]
Posted: Jan 8, 2021, 2:26 PM
    Reply

Somebody already manged to give me a thumbs down on the OP.

Sometimes I expect them after I hit post, but I've got to admit this one caught me a little off guard.

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I have no idea why anyone would down vote the OP.***

[3]
Posted: Jan 11, 2021, 10:30 AM
    Reply



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You proved their point was not accurate. I enjoyed reading

[2]
Posted: Jan 11, 2021, 2:20 PM
    Reply

your posts. Very accurate and true. I didn't think we would be experienced enough with our OL and the defense as a whole. We have lost a lot the last two years and that is hard to replace. We'll get better this coming season and be back next year.

TigersO

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Carmen looked gassed at the end of the

[3]
Posted: Jan 8, 2021, 2:46 PM
    Reply

Game

Which is why T law was running for his life

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Re: Carmen looked gassed at the end of the

[4]
Posted: Jan 8, 2021, 2:51 PM
    Reply

There are a lot of reasons TL was running for his life at the end of the game.

The tackles were left on islands most of the season and that continued in the OSU game.

Even when wanted to give support to the tackles in pass pro we knew we needed it more elsewhere.

I thought early in the season that Carman was playing poorly until I started to look closer into why it looked that way.

If he ever got RB or TE help it was extremely rare and he had to face the best pass rushing DE in every game.

If he was gassed it was probably largely due to having to spend every play on his own instead of being able to rotate help to different areas.

He certainly didn't play a perfect season, but Carman was the least of our worries up front.

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Pig

Re: First post since before Christmas

[2]
Posted: Jan 8, 2021, 2:52 PM
    Reply

That sir... was a mouthful.
I too am very excited about the play of both the men's and women's basketball teams. I hope they continue to play at a high level.
As far as football... I have put the game behind me. We didn't play our best and OSU did. The team as a whole should be better next year. I can't wait for next season.

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Re: First post since before Christmas

[1]
Posted: Jan 8, 2021, 2:54 PM
    Reply

I'm not yet sold on a better team in '21 but a more experienced and more talented defense will be nice to look forward to.

Thank you for the response!

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Welcome back!

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Jan 8, 2021, 3:33 PM
    Reply

As usual, great analysis. Agree across the board.

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Wonder who TD'ed this post?...***

[3]
Posted: Jan 8, 2021, 6:32 PM
    Reply



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Nice take, good job:

[4]
Posted: Jan 9, 2021, 8:00 AM
    Reply

However, I differ on the RB room. It's a bunch of pretty good guys but for an elite power that's not good enough.

Bama, for example, keeps trotting out a stud every single year. They have a stable of "pretty good guys", and they are important - but that is for depth.

Wait and see if talent is really there after a couple of years have passed? I don't think so. Real high level talent in RB's shows up often and EARLY. See: Ellington, Spiller, Etienne, etc., as freshmen. A flash here and a flash there over a couple of years (Lyn J is probably the best example of this) doesn't cut it for the program we have, except that you definitely need the depth.

Bowman probably was going to be one of these guys, but we know what happened. That loss is a stinger.

I hope I'm wrong on all this. Don't get me wrong - I love our players.

My guess is Shipley is the real deal and takes over pretty quickly.

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Re: Nice take, good job:

[3]
Posted: Jan 11, 2021, 9:54 AM
    Reply

Dixon is not who I have in mind for the most part when I think about potential.

I think we know pretty well what Dixon will be moving forward.

More of my hope lies in an increased workload for Mellusi or Pace.

Mellusi has shown really nice flashes in very limited touches.

Pace is even more limited and so much so that we have no idea where his ceiling may be.

I agree that the two incoming freshmen, mainly Shipley, have a real opportunity to make a push with no returning guy commanding the lead for reps and touches.

It will be an interesting offseason and likely into the first 3-4 games to sort out a pecking order.

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Re: First post since before Christmas

[4]
Posted: Jan 9, 2021, 10:08 AM
    Reply

Been mostly off net since the O41O State loss except for bball. Tip of the cap to them for some positive feelings.

I think your opinions are pretty solid. Didn’t mention DE play hurting us, but that’s covered elsewhere.

Otherwise, welcome back - hope the holidays were good to you (Sugar Bowl notwithstanding).

Bring on 2021!



GO TIGERS!!!!


PS: One other thing! I don’t get the TDs, either. (caveat: if it’s CLEARLY a troll post, I TD). Otherwise, if you have a beef with me, disagree, etc., tell me. Oh well, what can you do? But the more I encounter those types, the more I like my dog..... sigh.

Message was edited by: Uncle Bill®


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Whatever choice(s) you make makes you. Choose wisely.


Re: First post since before Christmas

[3]
Posted: Jan 9, 2021, 3:32 PM
    Reply

So good to have you back. Definitely missed your posts. Really like reading stuff from the x and o experts like you, @hillrock Tiger, Leon T and many others.

Agree with most, especially the oline. I guess that's what made the offense stall, and had Trevor taking underneath b4 longer routes developed. I think a couple in the middle were lacking and tbh, we had some low rated guys in the middle... I know, can't go by star power but still, I would've hoped the younger ones would have developed by season end.

As for DE's. We knew going in and good article on the tnet wrap. Just some bad luck in a way. Still not sure that would helped osu game. So I ask you, Myles said osu spread them out and was moving the line keeping them confused.

Correctly analysis on we didn't set the edge or hold gap integrity per d hood article. That said, Myles also stated because what osu was doing, it confused them on whether to cover the gap or not. Any insight on how that's avoided?

Turner and the backend. He admitted as well he was and others out of position several big plays. On them, or would scheme made a difference? Imho, I saw that a lot during whole season but fortunately opposing QB's either couldn't or didn't make those throws, lucky for us. Systemic problem or we just didn't have th atheticism to cover the mistakes, or did osu do good job exposing said atheletes weakness.

Thanks, hope we can have civil discussion as I'm probably wrong on some things. Tia,

CG - Pennsylvania

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Re: First post since before Christmas

[2]
Posted: Jan 11, 2021, 10:01 AM
    Reply

On the Murphy comments - I think that is where the 6 game thing makes a big difference.

OSU threw out some concepts that had not been on film and while a more experienced d-line might have been able to adjust quickly based off of previous experiences, we didn't have anything to fall back on in that department against a team of that caliber.

Young guys tend to rely heavily on being told in film study, "this is what we will see and this is how you should react". If that isn't what happens on game day it can be tough to both play fast and figure out new keys to work off of.

With the early problems on the back end I think we were missing Turner in the first half. Then in the 2nd half I think Turner was trying to do too much (help LBs w/ no Skalski, look for heavily used TEs to stop that wrinkle, etc.) and it took him out of what he does best on the back end which is playing assignment football.

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Re: First post since before Christmas


Posted: Jan 11, 2021, 2:55 PM
    Reply

Wow. Thank you so so much. That really helps me understand a whole lot more. Actually, don't feel as bad about it as I thought. As others have stated, I know your time is valuable but man is this kind of insight priceless. Hope you can post more.

My grands played oline at a small Pennsylvania college so I pester them a lot but they're busy with their own stuff. Lol. Thanks again.

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Re: First post since before Christmas

[4]
Posted: Jan 9, 2021, 5:25 PM
    Reply

Good points. Thanks for taking the time to share. I wish I had the football IQ to engage more in these types of posts, but I never played football. Anyway, welcome back and keep up the good work.

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I love having Skalski back with the young talent we have.

[3]
Posted: Jan 11, 2021, 10:53 AM
    Reply

He needs to start, and then get them reps as soon as possible, with him on the sideline guiding them as to how to QB a defense and what he sees that they don’t. Everyone wins.

Good post.

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Re: I love having Skalski back with the young talent we have.

[2]
Posted: Jan 11, 2021, 11:05 AM
    Reply

Excellent point!

It is my hope that with the return of Skalski and hopefully Turner that we will see their snaps be extremely limited in games that Clemson controls early so that the younger players at their positions will get as much on-field time as possible.

I know Clemson always subs a lot but I hope that it's a little extra with these 2 guys when we have an opponent outmatched next season.

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Re: I love having Skalski back with the young talent we have.


Posted: Jan 11, 2021, 3:15 PM
    Reply

First half and more than just Jake. Really hoping vonta can make a leap. Maybe start building cred for next level talk. Time for tigers to put another 2nd round LB to the bigs.

Really want to see KJ get his due. He's so humble and just the perfect attitude.

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Detailed documentation required of your daily activities...

[2]
Posted: Jan 11, 2021, 11:44 AM
    Reply

While u were away, mysteriously hiding, off the grid from TNET! Very sketchy behavior, bruh! Bounce in, bounce out, some shady sh!+ at best. Gettin that "subversive in our midst" vibe(smh), u prolly need to be quarantined, fr-

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Re: Detailed documentation required of your daily activities...

[3]
Posted: Jan 11, 2021, 12:27 PM
    Reply

TNET is my downtime hangout.

With 2 young children and managing wife's, grandparents' and family's requests/plans around the holidays, it wasn't exactly downtime for me.

Then we I got some time to start reading again, I spent a few days lurking to get my bearings for how things were going. That's when I started building the thoughts from the OP.

TNET is not a place that you just jump in blind after time away without checking the temperature of the room.

Many a username have been run into the ground by those who have entered or returned to posting in a hasty manner.

Thank you for your concern!

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